PM: So, Mr S, what have you been up to lately?
SA: Not much. Went out for dinner with coworkers last night.
PM: Oh nice. I seldom do that sort of thing anymore. Did you have a good time?
SA: It was pretty fun. The meal was good but the guys all undid their belts after they finished eating which was strange.
PM: Weird.
SA: Have you ever experienced that?
PM: No, I’m the one who’s always causing offence rather than the one being offended. Everyone thinks it’s gross that I lick my fingers after meals. I’m just enjoying the last remnants of the food is all.
SA: I know but what can you do?
PM: Today’s episode is about those cultural differences that divide East and West. But with a special twist!
SA: What? That they’re connected to sports?
PM: Mr S, you read my mind! This episode is inspired by the classic Ugly Koreans Ugly Americans book that tries to explain cultural differences. Mr S, are you familiar with this book?
SA: You mean prior to a couple months ago when you lent me your copy? No, I wasn’t.
PM: Well, let me tell you and both of our listeners about it then. It was first published in the 90s and has had several editions come out over the years. In fact, my copy from 2010 is the third edition I have owned. I keep lending them out to people who never bothered giving them back. Hint hint, Mr S.
SA: (sigh) You’ll get it back soon. Cross my heart and hope to die.
PM: Good. It is written by Min Byung Chul, who also happened to be the namesake for the MBC chain of academies. So very modest of him.
SA: No ego that I can detect.
PM: I worked for MBC in Bucheon when I first came to Korea and we had a few of his/their books. Pronounce It Right, which contained a small but unmistakable racial slur, was one. They also had a pretty good freetalking book that I would love to track down. Every time I’m in one of those Aladdin bookshops, I’ll take a peek for it.
SA: So what about Ugly Koreans, Ugly Americans?
PM: It’s a small collection describing cultural differences that either we find strange about Korea or that they think is weird about us with amusing single panel comic strips accompanying them. Some are obvious, some obscure and a few might be out of date or exaggerated - and there’s even the odd one that I’ve never encountered before. And, indeed, there are a few common cultural differences that haven’t been included. For example, the fact that Koreans use miniscule towels after showering isn’t brought up. That was the first thing I noticed when I came here.
SA: What about the predominance of spitting?. Did that make it into the book?
PM: Oh yeah, it’s in there.. Mr S, can you recall the first cultural difference you noticed shortly after coming here?
SA: My first day in Gwangyang, I saw a car stop on green and go on red. I was like “the traffic signals are reversed here”? Really threw me for a loop.
PM: Are you sure that’s a cultural difference or just a moron behind the wheel? But the book does have a few driving-related topics such as the one about Koreans refusing to move out of the way for ambulances.
SA: That one strikes me as more down to traffic congestion than outright malicious refusal.
PM: Yeah, I agree. Before we get started, a quick nod to Joe McPherson and Sean Morrissey over at The Dark Side of Seoul podcast. In addition to many wonderful episodes about folklore, ghost stories, murder and various unsavoury types, they have an occasional series covering Ugly Koreans, Ugly Americans which was the inspiration for this episode. A link to their podcast is available in the shownotes.
Sports differences
SA: So, Paul’s going to read out a few common cultural differences in relation to sports and we’ll discuss each one. What’s the first one you got?
PM: Let’s start with the most obvious: professional sports teams use the names of corporations instead of the cities or areas they come from.
SA: Definitely one you’re likely to notice early on.
PM: It’s the sort of thing we’re used to now but it was strange at first. Did you find it hard to remember where each team plays?
SA: Not for every sport but baseball was the worst. You had to read wikipedia or something to get the locations or try to infer from the game schedule. Footie was a bit harder because they don’t list the sponsors but they go by province or city and that’s hard for places outside Gyeonggi-do. Gangwon FC. WHERE in Gangwon? Gangwon is large and mountainous and has two big-ish cities.
PM: Yeah but Carolina Hurricanes and Carolina Panthers, what’s up with that?
SA: True-ish but the schedules at least state the stadium name and city in a clear fashion there.
PM: You might assume that the use of corporate naming is not unlike selling off the naming rights to stadiums and other buildings back home but I don’t think that’s quite true. Rather, it dates back to companies having their own amateur teams which were then carried over into the professional game.
SA: Right. Clubs like the Lotte Giants and Samsung Thunders predate the pro leagues they’re a part of.
PM: With the chaebols having these naming rights, it’s natural to assume that civic pride matters less than back home but there’s little evidence of that.
SA: Indeed, Busan, Daegu and Gwangju have the most passionate fanbases in the KBO.
PM: Moving on, let’s go to one I have a soft spot for. Players on pro teams bow to spectators at the end of a game.
SA: I find it friendly but at the same time, forced. I heard the fans got mad at KCC when they got blown out by 30 one time and they didn’t meet the fans. Hell if you got blown out, I wouldn’t wanna talk to you either.
PM: I know what you mean but at the end of the day these guys are professionals playing to a crowd who’ve spent their hard earned money on tickets, concessions and merch. Having to acknowledge the fans for a couple seconds after a game won’t kill them.
SA: Yeah, but the players are tired and stressed after a game. I’d rather they’d get a shower, talk in the locker room, then meet fans as they go to the team bus.
PM: To me, I’d rather they do this then slink off to the changerooms. Look at what happened at the end of game 7 of last year’s Stanley Cup final. Connor McDavid was named playoff MVP and he wouldn’t go back out onto the ice to receive his trophy. Some defended him while others were critical. I have no doubt he was devastated about losing the Cup but he’s the face of the league and he makes 10 million bucks so he should’ve gone out there and gritted his teeth and accepted his prestigious award.
SA: That is not a sentiment shared by the sports writers and the locker room. But yes, players should interact more with fans, without punching them a la “malice in the palace”.
PM: I would be all for something similar in North American sports. An acknowledgement of appreciation from the players to their fans - and not some lame thank you over the PA.
SA: Baseball players sometimes tip their caps.
PM: They do and hockey players sometimes hold their sticks upright as some sort of gesture of goodwill. But these are both done in special circumstances not at the end of every game.
SA: It would get tiresome if they did it every regular season game.
PM: Would it really though? It’s just a bow.
SA: Everyone here does it.
PM: And it’s a Korean custom in all manner of situations. A speaker bows to an audience, a politician caught declaring martial law bows even if he isn’t the least bit sorry. It’s the thing you do here.
SA: Like it or not.
PM: Next up, people are required to wear swim caps, lifejackets and/or flotation devices when they go to public swimming pools or waterparks regardless of their proficiency as swimmers. This one is deeply annoying.
SA: And humiliating. My wife gets annoyed when people half her age ask her to wear a lifejacket and she’s like “I’ve been swimming since before you were swimming in your mom’s belly!”
PM: I agree. I did not take the better part of a decade’s worth of swimming lessons as a boy just so I would be forced to put on a lifejacket at a wave pool. Have you worn some or all of these devices since you first came here?
SA: I like the lifejackets because I can float lazily. I guess I’m just used to more intense swimming like in the Eastern pacific.
PM: You’re not naturally buoyant? Your personality suggests otherwise! (laughing)
SA: You flatter me so!
PM: There’s nothing wrong with choosing to wear a lifejacket or, indeed, use flotation devices or swim caps. But do we all have to?
SA: I guess public swimming pools and beaches are just covering their asses. And learning how to swim isn’t as common as it is back home.
PM: I imagine that’s the case. But if we must abide by these regulations how about a “Throw your goddamn band-aids in the garbage!” rule.
SA: There needs to be R&D into band-aids that dissolve in chlorine. Wouldn’t that be great?
PM: You’ve cracked it, Mr S. Moving on, long distance races of as little as 5 km are often referred to as ‘Marathons’.
SA: Yet a 42 km race is still also known as a marathon. Go figure.
PM: I guess this is an example of Konglish that we tend to ignore - or, indeed, aren’t even aware of.
SA: Korea has a legacy of great distance runners so it seems a little insulting that anyone entering a 5 km race could also claim to have run a marathon.
PM: Yeah, I would understand this one more if long distance running wasn’t a part of the culture and they just used the word as a catch all. Did I tell you about the exchange I had a while ago with our close friend and loyal Hwa-ting Sports Podcast listener Jimmy?
SA: I’m not sure. Remind me.
PM: We were talking and he said he was going to be running a half-marathon soon and I asked him, “so what is that, two and a half km?” It took him a moment to get what I was doing there. I mean, if anything can be a marathon then half that is a half-marathon, am I right?
SA: No arguments here!
PM: Ready for the next one?
SA: Bring it!
PM: Recreational sports are taken very seriously. Way too seriously.
SA: In fact, there aren’t many sports I’d consider to be “recreational”.
PM: Aside from families in parks playing badminton without nets? No, there’s very little recreation involved. You played catch with your dad growing up, right?
SA: Sure, everyone did.
PM: Right. I used to love playing catch with my dad. We had a very average size backyard so we played catch in relatively close proximity but here you see a father and son - or alternatively two friends - playing catch and there’s a good chance they’ll be taking up the entire length of the park they’re in. How is a boy of eight or nine supposed to be able to throw that far? Plus, it doesn’t look like much fun. And what about the bond forged between father and son over a catch…excuse me, I’m getting all Field of Dreams here all of a sudden.
SA: I guess this is their way of trying to build up their child’s arm strength but I think they’ll get tendonitis or bursitis if they keep doing that. (different voice) Teacher: Why isn’t your son in class? (Different voice) Dad: Sorry, my son had Tommy John’s surgery on Saturday. I made him throw too many forkballs.
PM: Perhaps Mr S, you’d like to tell us about your days playing ultra-competitive recreational baseball.
SA: I wouldn’t call it ultra-competitive as it was more of a beer league kinda thing but there were so many rules we had to follow. And the umpires didn’t like us. Our strike zone was as big as the parking lot and theirs was smaller than my Galaxy tab. I don’t know if that qualifies as a cultural difference but man it got on our nerves.
PM: I remember you guys telling me about how base stealing was allowed which still blows my mind. If there’s zero risk of a catcher being able to throw all the way to second to make an out then why allow steals.
SA: Our catchers could throw that far- but not accurately. This could be another reason fathers and sons play catch so far apart though. “Son, you’ll thank me one day when you’re in a beer league and you’re the catcher”.
PM: I used to talk about forming a slow pitch league but these stories of yours made me rethink it. I had the feeling a lot of Korean players would not be able to accept the philosophy that it’s “just a game”.
SA: To be fair, there are North Americans who are much the same.
PM: But I think they’d grasp the fair play rules of rec sports better. For example, slowpitch leagues tend to frown upon base stealing which I have trouble picturing Korean players going along with.
SA: They probably have it hard wired
PM: Finally, I’m going to mention one that might not be a cultural difference and instead is more of a cross-generational matter: kids ride bikes side by side and talk nonstop the entire time.
SA: It’s OK when the road is clear but not so good around curves. I saw a bit of that with all of us tourists on U-Do Jeju-do this summer.
PM: I disagree. It should be avoided. Single file all the way baby! Otherwise they’ll develop bad habits. Even in parks.
SA: Really? Parks?
PM: Absolutely. Have you been in a Korean park lately? The paths are seldom wide enough for two couples walking in opposite directions let alone three or four brats on bikes. As I say, I’m not entirely sure if this is a cultural difference or not but I suspect it is because it tracks with a lot of Korean parents being controlling over their kids in terms of education while allowing them to run wild during their free time.
SA: Are you done?
PM: Not quite. Another thing that bugs me is these kids ride around on their bikes and they can’t stop talking to each other. Shut the hell up! Does everything have to be so damn social all the time?
SA: Are you done now?
PM: Yeah, rant over.
SA: I thought of one!
PM: Great, what have you got?
SA: All sports have cheerleaders/dancers. Even the PBA billiards league has cheerleaders and smoke effects. Why? There were only 20 fans in the seats by the table.
PM: Whatsmore, it’s a sport of concentration in which those 20 fans are expected to be quiet for the most part, so what purpose are they filling?
SA: Sex appeal? If any sport needs sex appeal it’s billiards.
PM: Good point. What about bowling? I sometimes watch bowling on TV and I don’t think there tend to be cheerleaders, though they could be out of the camera’s shot. Speaking of cheerleaders, do you find it funny that in the women’s pro leagues, the cheering squads aren't composed of men?
SA: Funny, maybe, but it’s in no way surprising. Koreans only recently began embracing the idea of male flight attendants; male cheerleaders might still be a ways off.
Cultural Differences in the USA.
PM: We’ll now switch and discuss some general differences.
SA: We’d like to get into differences in sporting culture that confuse or offend Koreans but that will have to wait for a future follow-up episode, perhaps with a guest to guide us.
PM: Wanna be on our show?
SA: Just let us know!
PM: The fan interactions are a bit different. Western fans are more laid-back for the most part.
SA: We spend a lot more for our tickets than people do here. For 100 bucks I’d better enjoy this seat for as long as the game’s on, until I leave early.
PM: That’s another thing- it seems like fans back home are way more willing to leave early, even for baseball games.
SA: That’s the car culture for ya. If you’re more than an hour away, especially if you’re in a city with narrow streets, you’re gonna want to leave early just so you’re not stuck idling in the parking lot for an hour. There’s also the fact that there are more listening options. Here it’s not easy to follow the game once you leave the stadium but in the States you can turn on your local sports radio station and catch the rest of the game on your way home to the suburbs. Here if you have the sports pack you can tune in on their app but you’ll run out of battery and you certainly can’t watch it while you’re driving.
PM: Yeah that’s another thing- following games on the radio used to be a thing here but not anymore, I think.
SA: Yeah I checked the KBO website and it has TV listings but no radio. That’s another big cultural difference.
PM: Which is a shame. Radio commentary teams tend to be far superior to their TV counterparts. So, what’s another one you can think of?
SA: Localised stadium food. Like you can get good cheesesteaks in Philly stadiums as an example. I guess you could do this in Korea but I haven’t really noticed it as much. Though I have seen more whale meat at soccer stadium tents than others.
PM: And Mr S brings up the food. Big surprise. Is finding local specialties commonplace back in North America or is it more of an exception? I remember watching a Flames game from Detroit when I was a kid and the host was talking about the novelty of enjoying Little Caesar’s pizza at a Red Wings game but for the most part it seemed like hot dogs, popcorn and nachos with melted cheese. But you do bring up another difference: food being sold outside the stadiums.
SA: That’s another thing car-related: tailgating.
PM: Yeah, tailgating! Uh, what’s that? For our non-American fans.
SA: You sit by your car or truck or RV with fans in the stadium parking lot and drink beer while you listen to the game or watch it on your devices. Sometimes, people have tickets and party before the game, then go inside and watch. You see this a lot with teams with a lot of working-class fans or large parking lots. You can’t really tailgate outside SF stadiums because they have underground parking lots. But you can in big places like Arrowhead in KC or Tigers stadium in Baton Rouge. Some teams even have events in their lots for tailgating fans.
PM: Korea doesn’t really have that, does it.
SA: They could with unlimited phone internet and the whole glamping thing, but not for baseball.
PM: Why not?
SA: Not enough above-ground parking space.
Ugly scandals
PM: Both countries have a bit of a paparazzi problem, although Korea’s is a bit less intense because of photography laws.
SA; Yeah, in the States, players are warned about behavior in public that could make them go viral. But sometimes they do stupid stuff anyway like fighting and drunk driving.
PM: Here in Korea athletes do the same thing but because of shame culture here being stronger, it’s more likely a player will be fired than back home. Whereas in the West, you’re more likely to get suspended. And also the fans and pundits will ruthlessly mock them.
SA: Oh my goawwd yes! Zion Williamson of the Pelicans is the cause celeb for this! Last year he was in 3 sex scandals involving his Only Fans baby mamas and they leaked his fetishes, like when he (bleep) and cried when she (bleep). Ohh, if this were in Korea, he woulda been run out of the KBL.
PM: That’s a related thing we should talk about. The English papers here only really cover scandals when they’re big news and involve legal matters. But the Korean papers, especially Sports Seoul, read more like shitty tabloids!
SA: Yeah we can’t even read them in our schools without the porn filters kicking in. Sports Chosun is better. They have English section but it’s mostly K-pop stuff and auto-translated stories. Compared to back home where we’ve got sports illustrated and things like that doing deep dives and special coverage, here it just feels lacking in a way.
PM: Especially since they don’t really print daily sporting schedules or statistics slash lineups. What good are these papers, besides reading the most recent sports news?
SA: At least Sports Chosun covers women’s sports, without bikinis, on a consistent basis.
Joke about Korean Supreme Court openings
PM: You took a phone call during the break?
SA: Yeah, I just got a call from the chief Justice’s office of the Korean Supreme Court. The clerk said I need to check my email.
PM: That’s odd. Is he a fan of the show?
SA: Probably but lemme check. (Pause for 3 seconds). Oh…
PM: What? It can’t be bad.
SA: Unfortunately for you, it is.
PM: Oh lord, here we go again…
SA: So the office has chosen you as a potential backup judge for the upcoming impeachment trials and related appeals. And they want me to interview you to determine your fit for the posting.
PM: Why are they asking me and not you?!
SA: I work for the government and you work for a private school. Also your visa is higher ranked than mine.
PM: Figures. Alright, how many questions is it?
SA: 5. Huh. Thought there’d be more, like a bar exam.
PM: We got time for 5. (groan sound) Hit me with the first one.
SA: A baseball player named Ju-suk is appealing a DUI conviction-
PM: Who does he play for?
SA: Hanwha Eagles.
PM: Guilty.
SA: Correct! A basketball player for a team down south is accused of sexual harassment and lying about marriage plans, but-
PM: What’s his 3pt percentage?
SA: This season or-
PM: This season.
SA: 36%.
PM: Is his team playing in the Super League?
SA: Yes.
PM: Not guilty.
SA: Correct! A kid from Seoul sued city hall because they didn’t shovel the sidewalk after the snowstorm and he got stuck in the snow for 9 hours losing two toes. He-
PM: Is he from Daichi-dong?
SA: Yes.
PM: Which hagwon does he go to?
SA: Uh, it only says Yale but there’s like 5 Yales there.
PM: OK, a tough one. What’s his favorite team?
SA: Kiwoom.
PM: Guilty - and I say that with a heavy heart as fellow Kiwoom Heroes fan.
SA: Correct though the exact word is liable! Next case involves a federation being sued because they won’t let star player Ahn film a commercial for a Marvel TV show. The federation rules state-
PM: Doesn’t matter. Guilty.
SA: Correct! Last case involves a football player appealing his conviction on recording sex tapes and-
PM: Who does he play for?
SA: Nottingham Forest.
PM: Guilty!
SA: Incorrect.
PM: What oh come on!
SA: You know the rules. Any player gets a quote pass unquote as long as they’re on a Premier League team.
PM: That’s not fair!
SA: Anyway, 4 out of 5’s not bad. That means you qualify for the next round of interviews.
PM: Is there any way I can get out of it? Can you just tell them I have monkeypox or something?
SA: You could attend an anti-Yoon rally and get out of it that way!
PM: I like where you’re going with this!
Ending
SA: Thanks for tuning in today! We hoped you learned something new about Korean sports!
PM: I certainly did! Please share this podcast with your friends & family, anyone you think would be interested in irreverent takes on Korean Sports.
SA: Especially give this to rookies. They need alllll the help they can get.
PM: Don’t forget to rate our podcast 5 stars of course. But don’t do it if you don’t like us.
SA: You can email the show at hwatingsportspodcast at gmail.com or leave a comment on our various podcast sites. Hate mail will be read aloud on special episodes and ruthlessly mocked.
PM: Fan mail will be mocked but in a more wholesome way. And speaking of fans, we are giving a shout-out to our many listeners in Chelyabinsk Russia! Take a shot of vodka for us but not on us! Speaking of which, what did the police officer say to the gang who had robbed a Chelyabinsk bank?
SA: What?
PM: Ural under arrest!
SA: Oh dear. Our next episode will be on Valentine’s Day and we’re talking about Korean Sports Movies!
PM: What better way to spend time with a loved one than watching cookie-cutter Cool-Runnings knockoffs?!
SA: Music notes like the opening song thanks to DumiAFava. Cover art thanks to our live-in cycling expert James! Until next time, Korean sports fans!
PM: Guests of the Hwa-ting sports podcast dine at Min Byung Chul’s Diner. Enjoy food from around the world with all the most disgusting and offensive dining customs. Soup consumed from a communal bowl? Check. Eating with your hands when cutlery is provided? Check. Licking your fingers before proceeding to grab more food from the table? Check. Tipping when you’re not supposed to? Not tipping when you’re supposed to? Check and check. Come for the cross-cultural exchange, leave and never return the many cultural misunderstandings. Min Byung Chul’s: where offense is our guarantee!
Notes:
The Dark Side of Seoul Podcast
https://www.fesliyanstudios.com/royalty-free-music/download/i-was-joking/336